Sorcery and Summoning

[Sheba]

I'm a n00b to the Elric books, but I am familiar with the kind of sorcery contained therein--you know, book-knowledge sorcery. My thoughts are towards the idea of inherent power versus acquired power. I've played a lot of RPGs (computer/NES/Playstation) where the magic use is often inherent, that is, the characters using the powers had them all along, and did not need to 'study' anything. Additionally, there are twists where magic use can be gained by some form of osmosis, if you like. (Example, final fantasy III (VI for PS1) has the Magicite shards that you "equip" and learn spells while gaining battle experience).

Do you think there is such a thing as "inherent" power, as opposed to the acquired kind? I'm talking about in Mortals, as Demon power (such as Arioch's) certainly would be classified as inherent.

[RCraigRobinson]

i know this response if off thread of your premise, but much of this relies upon how you define power. in regards to "inherent power", it seems to me that the innate ability of being mortal is the power of choice. to choose how you greet the dawn. to yield to the night. to stand amid the maelstrom and declare, "I am I."
the gods, if they are yet awake, and demons, if they are more but callow reflections of our own vices, are slaves to the inevitable externality of so-called acquired power; stuck in the ennui of familiar paths.
this is the dichotomy of controling external circumstances of others or
defining yourself among circumstances out of your control.

ok, i'll go back to sleep now

[Michael Moorcock]

Elric learns much of his sorcery, through the 'dream couches' -- by living many years in a few hours -- but is also predisposed to it. That's in the fiction. I'm not a great believer in supernatural powers in real life. In that sense the fiction works as a metaphor for power and how it is used/abused.

[Sheba]

I'm not big into humans having "powers" in real life, myself.

Being as Elric's not really "human", I can see the predisposition angle.

I'm not really thinking of the power of "choice" (although that is what humans seem to have over "demons"), but rather out and out metaphysical abilities, such as casting a Fire2 spell...(basic magic of Final Fantasy) or teleporting. You know, something Humans could NEVER do here in real life--not by merely THINKING about it, at least. (We'll see if tech catches up with the idea of teleporting tho, maybe)

[Starscream]

Dream couches? Oh boy, I think I forgot a lot more then I thought. mmmmm I think I need to do a lot of rereading :oops: :oops:

[Michael Moorcock]

Don't be too embarrassed! They only occur in later stories and figure largely in the forthcoming DC graphic novel. It occurred to me, rather belatedly, to wonder HOW the likes of Elric could learn so much sorcery and be so young... This is me thinking about the stories retrospectively
and adding detail. Which is why I'm still writing Elric stories!

[Starscream]

Whew . . . had me going there for a moment. Im sitting here thinking back on what Elric stories I know wondering HOW I missed Dream Couches. :P

That is an interesting idea by the way. I dont know the full extent of what Dream Couches are other then what you stated on them in the other post. But I did something that has a fundamental similarity in basic idea recently in a story Im working on. 8O I also came up with this before I read the post regarding Dream Couches . . . Thats a bit freaky. :?

[Michael Moorcock]

Well, I'm famous for tinkering. You'll find a wholly new prologue to Elric of Melnibone on the audio book version! This introduces the dream couches. I'm likely to include something like it in new editions of Elric of Melnibone, too. I sometimes think I've weaving this vast tapestry, every so often making adjustments to the pattern. The dream couches feature in Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer, which comes out from DC this autumn, in The Skrayling Tree (or at least a similar idea) and in The White Wolf's Son, as well as Elric of Melnibone, the AudioRealms version!
Since this is the last novel I plan to write featuring Elric, it's likely there won't be any further tinkering!

[Starscream]

I look forward to hearing and reading the adjustments then ^_^. I can accept going back and adding and tinkering with something and I think its only making the Elric series better. Theres many aspects of Melnibone and her peoples customs and ways that Ive always wanted to know about. And unlike what Ive seen in the other fantasy universe I am a fan of, I cant see you doing something that would conflict with that youve already set down.

As for the idea I had that /could/ be considered simliar? Someone had to learn something that normally would take years to learn. He was flung through the past and into the minds of many before him as they were learning the same or already knew it. Years of training on this was burned into his mind in a short time. It was against his will that he was put through this and something interfered along the way . . . but thats part of another aspect of the plot. I might post it on the Dead Gods Book thread but Im nervous about it to be honest.

[Michael Moorcock]

That's close to how the DC graphic novel runs... but who survives and how is part of the plot I can't exactly give away at this stage!
Maybe you're telepathic!

[Starscream]

oh no ^_^ And I thought I was being original in my idea :P

Uhm . . . this is not the first time I have somehow paralleled you in one way or another. Im not sure what to make of that.

[Doc]

I might post it on the Dead Gods Book thread but Im nervous about it to be honest.

I'd like to see it. I enjoy reading what others on this board have written. Besides, it's just plain selfish to not share

[DyvimTvarsBodyguard]

Don't get the impression the 'dream couches'
are a relaxing good time.

Some never wake up
or
are mentally scarred from what they see there.

A great way to learn sorcery, in short periods of time,
but also very dangerous.

[Jerico]

Well, I'm famous for tinkering. You'll find a wholly new prologue to Elric of Melnibone on the audio book version! This introduces the dream couches. I'm likely to include something like it in new editions of Elric of Melnibone, too. I sometimes think I've weaving this vast tapestry, every so often making adjustments to the pattern. The dream couches feature in Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer, which comes out from DC this autumn, in The Skrayling Tree (or at least a similar idea) and in The White Wolf's Son, as well as Elric of Melnibone, the AudioRealms version!
Since this is the last novel I plan to write featuring Elric, it's likely there won't be any further tinkering!

Dammit! I'm going to have to buy the audio book now. Dammit because I already know I'm bad at audio books. I have Clive Barker's Imajica and never got through it because my mind wanders too much. I would have to rewind it a gazillion times in order to "capture" all the information. Oh well, I guess I have to train myself...

[Starscream]

I can imagine the experience being traumatic for one not of the right mental stability. The character in my story has handled it well so far. I think that falls back on how badly he wanted the knowledge to begin with.

And I am thinking about posting it Doc. If I do I will make a note of it here that I have done so.