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1000 year dream

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    Anonymous

    1000 year dream

    About Elric's (2nd) dream of a thousand years.... His quest to find Stormbringer spaned two books, but I don't remember how he found his sword. (Although he did locate Ravenbrand/Mournblade.) Is that a plot hole or did I miss something in my reading?

    Thanks!
  • GuyLawley
    Champion of the Balance
    • Aug 2004
    • 1479

    #2
    Re: 1000 year dream

    Originally posted by E
    About Elric's (2nd) dream of a thousand years.... His quest to find Stormbringer spaned two books, but I don't remember how he found his sword. (Although he did locate Ravenbrand/Mournblade.) Is that a plot hole or did I miss something in my reading?
    I couldn’t answer this question from memory. I thought I’d understood the denouement of The White Wolf’s Son when I read it but I couldn’t recall how/when Elric got Stormbringer back. I vaguely thought it had occurred “off-stage.� Other voices have noted that some of the major actions of White Wolf’s Son occur off-stage (e.g. Hawkmoon’s/Count Brass’s battles).

    Checking the book, I find that when Una Persson visits the Moorcocks in Texas, she explains Elric’s Thousand Year Dream to Mike and Linda. She says that Elric lost the Black Sword in 1974, then found it again in Portugal. There he met up with St Odhran and they travelled via Scotland to Tower House, to protect Oonagh from Gaynor and Klosterheim, at the point where the story of The White Wolf’s Son begins (see page 108).

    We can take it that this Black Sword is truly Stormbringer rather than any other incarnation of The Sword because Elric has had to find it again before his dream ends, and he knows his Thousand Years are almost up. So at the beginning of the book Elric has Stormbringer.

    Baron Bous-Junge tells Oona (page 255) that Elric left “the black sword� behind at Tower House when he went off looking for Oona. It was stolen and came into the possession of Bous-Junge and Taragorm (who got it from Gaynor & Klosterheim). Later we learn that it was St Odhran who pretended to steal Elric’s Black Sword for them.

    St Odhran was supposed to (a) steal The True Black Sword for the villains (b) give them a true White Sword of Law and (b) make a forged Black Sword (presumably to leave behind and fool Elric & co). Actually St Odhran delivered them Mournblade and a forged Sword Of Law. Elric kept Stormbringer, we presume.

    I previously thought Ravenbrand was actually Stormbringer, the real thing, or at least a version thereof, living on in our world. Now it seems she is actually Mournblade. Gaynor says (WWS page 310) that the sword in his possession is “Ravenblade (sic), the Black Sword’s sister.� On page 118 of The Skrayling Tree, Elric says he carries “Ravenbrand, sister to my own Stormbringer. How I came by Ravenbrand in that place is a tale yet to be told.�

    Since Elric’s getting Stormbringer back is the reason for the Thousand Year Dream, and both The Skrayling Tree and The White Wolf’s Son take place within that Dream, it is odd that Mike chose not actually to portray the reunion of man and sword.

    Mike, I know in your books you resist simplistic resolutions, but I'm obviously not the only reader puzzled by this point.

    Or have I too missed something somewhere? :?

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    • Guest's Avatar
      Anonymous

      #4
      That was an awesome reply Guy. Thanks!

      I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on another part of the book (wws) that puzzled me… The confrontation between Erekose and Hawkmoon. I think I understand Erekose's motive to destroy the balance based on reading the Quest for Tanelorn, but what was Hawkmoon's motive for the fight? and what do you think did him in at the end of it?

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      • Michael Moorcock
        Site Host
        • Dec 2003
        • 14278

        #5
        I was inclined to see the rest of the Hawkmoon cycle as following after (or at least as an alternative to) the events in WWS. That is, Count Brass essentially comes next, following or parallelling events in WWS. Does that make any sense to you ?

        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
        The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
        Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
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        Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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        • Whiskers
          flying cat
          • Nov 2003
          • 1950

          #6
          Originally posted by E
          That was an awesome reply Guy. Thanks!

          I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on another part of the book (wws) that puzzled me… The confrontation between Erekose and Hawkmoon. I think I understand Erekose's motive to destroy the balance based on reading the Quest for Tanelorn, but what was Hawkmoon's motive for the fight? and what do you think did him in at the end of it?
          Could it be that it was Hawkmoon's desire to destroy The Runestaff? Would that not have undone King Huon's power? What did him in is that The Runestaff was unsummoned. Perhaps he had a realisation in the end that there was nothing to undo and that the people in his reality gave Huon the power and not The Runstaff?
          The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Anonymous

            #8
            Thanks Mike. I think I understand. Interesting that in one version of GranBriton the eternal champion cycle is starting with Alric/Daker and in a parallel reality it is ending with Erekose/Daker. I like it.

            I guess I took the WWS as a different riff on the themes from earlier books. It’s a strange (a mean that in a positive way) book. Familiar characters but not really the same ones found in the other books. But there is not enough back story on them to quite understand what’s happening… Particularly with Hawkmoon and Erekose. Which may very well have been the intension…for me to give it my own story/meaning.

            -Great take on Hawkmoon Barry. I wonder why Hawkmoon (faced with such disillusionment ) didn’t also strike out at the balance? What do you think he had to gain by defending it?

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            • Whiskers
              flying cat
              • Nov 2003
              • 1950

              #9
              Originally posted by E
              Great take on Hawkmoon Barry. I wonder why Hawkmoon (faced with such disillusionment ) didn’t also strike out at the balance? What do you think he had to gain by defending it?
              Because he didn't understand what it was?
              The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

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              • Whiskers
                flying cat
                • Nov 2003
                • 1950

                #10
                Originally posted by Berry Sizemore
                Originally posted by E
                Great take on Hawkmoon Barry. I wonder why Hawkmoon (faced with such disillusionment ) didn’t also strike out at the balance? What do you think he had to gain by defending it?
                Because he didn't understand what it was?
                Wasn't that actually Hawkmoon's archetype? In which case, wouldn't he have known what The Cosmic Balance was? If so, wouldn't have have had a knowledge and some self motivated interest in protecting it, until such time that he could participate in its detruction?
                The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

                Comment

                • Michael Moorcock
                  Site Host
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 14278

                  #11
                  Thanks, E. As I said elsewhere, Elric moves closer to Cornelius in technique which is probably why it's time to call it a day, at least with 'regular' Elric stories.

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                  Comment

                  • GuyLawley
                    Champion of the Balance
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 1479

                    #12
                    Whilst we're on a roll with this, what does everyone think St Odhran takes from the dead Hawkmoon's hand at the end of WWS? And why?

                    While WWS explains a lot of stuff (beautifully) it also throws up some new mysteries (and why not indeed?). I've got this down as one of the "mysteries."

                    Comment

                    • Michael Moorcock
                      Site Host
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 14278

                      #13
                      Room for work by other hands here, I'd suspect. And maybe, heh, heh, I'll take my secret to the grave. Which, according to Linda who did one of those 'How Long Will You Live' surveys, will be when I'm 103... :)

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment

                      • Whiskers
                        flying cat
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 1950

                        #14
                        Originally posted by GuyLawley
                        Whilst we're on a roll with this, what does everyone think St Odhran takes from the dead Hawkmoon's hand at the end of WWS? And why?

                        While WWS explains a lot of stuff (beautifully) it also throws up some new mysteries (and why not indeed?). I've got this down as one of the "mysteries."
                        That would have been the splinter of the Emerald Stone Hawkmoon had been using to move his troops about.
                        The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

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                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Anonymous

                          #15
                          Nice pull Barry I missed that.

                          Speaking of stones.... Do you (or anyone) think it was the jewel in Hawkmoon's skull that finished him?

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