War of War of the Worlds

[Michael Moorcock]

Some of us the other day were deploring the idea of Spielberg's 'modernised' War of the Worlds movie. I got this today:
http://www.sfcrowsnest.com/sfnews2/0...ws0904_9.shtml

[Darren]

just shooting the breeze

Movie moguls as well as media moguls are indefatigably deplorable anyhow. Spielberg should quit his hegemony like Crichton and his book-to-film monopoly.

What's this? A British movie based on a British sci-fi writer! My friend downloaded for me the musical version with Richard Burton narrating recently.

Men Like Gods was a strange novel. And I suppose, as you are the font of all literary knowledge, or at least damn as near it, would know about his, HGW's, involvement in something called the Open Conspiracy? What do you think that was about?

This is all very well and good, Mr M. but what we all really want to know is how is the Elric Movie progressing? I'll have to repost that question on it's proper thread. And another thing, how can a simple question like what is a neo-con lead to pages and pages of replies?

How are you, by the way?

:roll:

[Michael Moorcock]

The World of William Clissold sort of proposed the idea, but he also brought it up in Anticipations before WW1. It's a long time since I read all this stuff, but I always saw it as Wells's flirting with fascism, before fascism became so clearly identified with dictators and worse. It's that idea of a freemasonry of the great and the good, who get together to run the world and make it a better place. You could argue that the Open Conspiracy is alive and well, since so many of the world's financiers, media tycoons and politicians socialise together, but whether it makes the world a better place is another matter.
Basically, it's the idea that fianciers, industrialists and other similar types should conspire togfether to create an economic superstate embracing the whole world. It's VERY anti-democratic!
Pretty good for a professed socialist, eh ? But that's what I mean about names...
I once argued that Wells went the way of many sf writers (Heinlein's a good example). He started off with a brilliant, wild romantic imagination which he then tried to rationalise. The rationalising process made him propose all kinds of stupid ideas. I wish he'd stuck to fiction. He was writing good (and bad) fiction to the end. Some of his later ideas are better (Universal Declaration of Human Rights, for instance). He did learn by experience.
Chris Weitz is promising a script at any moment.

[flutegirlrockz]

I think there is enough room for diferent versions of WOTW. Marvel did a great version during the 70's which was set in the future and featured a band of rebels led by a hero called Killraven who were fighting the Martians. P Graig Russell did the art incidentally. I guess a movie about the Orson Wells radio play and the chaos it created would be interesting too. I just hope Spielberg and Cruise don't try to muscle other versions out of the picture. As for the Open Conspiracy wasn't that a bunch of intellectuals who thought they could run the world better then anyone else because they were smarter or am I thinking of something else? I think the Simpsons did an episode parodying this.

[Michael Moorcock]

I thought that Kilraven stuff pretty awful -- just a standard piece of schlock science fiction, whereas a period story should be done, I feel.
Although it had its drawbacks, First Men in the Moon had some nifty Victorian brass-and-plush sf.
Don't watch the Simpsons (do watch King of the Hill) so didn't see the
episode you mention. However, I suspect the Bushoviks actually believe that's what they're up to now. Wouldn't be surprised if Mr Anthony Blair, our rock and roll prime minister, didn't believe in the Open Conspiracy, too.
Funny how fascism keeps sneaking back in.
That's the fundamental idea -- that democracy doesn't 'work' and the world would be better run by a bunch of enlightened businessmen. So far we've never had an ounce of proof that businessmen can run anything, including a railway, but there you go. When rich people get delusional we all have to join in the fun whether we like it or not.

[Michael Moorcock]

My mistake, by the way. I didn't see the Craig Russell comic.
Must be thinking of something done in the UK.

[nalpak retrac]

the great and the good, who get together to run the world and make it a better place. You could argue that the Open Conspiracy is alive and well, since so many of the world's financiers, media tycoons and politicians socialise together, but whether it makes the world a better place is another matter.
Basically, it's the idea that fianciers, industrialists and other similar types should conspire togfether to create an economic superstate embracing the whole world. It's VERY anti-democratic!

Edward Bellamy's Looking Backward also comes to mind.

But, anyway, the authentic War of the Worlds film soundsl ike a real treat.

Speilberg can save it. Everything he makes smacks of corporate media cynicism, consumer focus groups, the lowest common demoninator.... There is something very ugly about his pandering.

[Caliburn]

Actually Carter - you could reasonably summarise that conclusion with what Bill Hicks called,

"Sucking Satans' scaly pecker."

In the end - if you are choosing (as in the American model) between two parties about both of which you have reservations then how can you claim that Democracy really exists at all?

Add to the this the quite crass co-opting of politicians and party agenda's by the same old conglomerated businesses and it is easy to see why Democracy must struggle so hard to acheive small victories on the very issues it was originally enfranchised to grapple with.

That is not to say that Democracy doesn't contain within it the seeds of its' own salvation, but for that, enough people must move as one to reach for their collective germination. (Apologies if my mixed metaphors grate on anyone's sensibilities - you should see some of my poetry!).

Popular groundswell of the magnitude required in a culture geared towards almost instant gratification is very difficult to engender - if you only need 'bread and circuses' to keep the poeple happy, and if the circuses are good enough, the bread is optional - then as a revolutionary you are in trouble in such an environment.

In short, I really beleive that the only true Democracy was Athenian - and then only if you were one of the potential Archons.

Does anyone here really beleive that Democracy can move back to its idealistic roots, or are you somewhat more cynical like myself?

[Michael Moorcock]

There's something irredeemably vulgar about Mr S. But then maybe you could say the same about me. He cheapened Empire of the Son and Private Ryan and I still haven't watched Schindler because I fear it would make me too miserable. A shame. I used to admire his craftsmanship. The problem is that he wasn't able to ditch the cheap shots, as it were, when his ambitions grew. I must say I sort of understand that, though I did my best not to use everything I'd learned when doing those 3 day books... :)

[L'Etranger]

"Schindler's List" was very moving, well made with a lot of respect and with characters who showed depth, also the negative protagonists. Also great actors. Perhaps you give it a try some day.
L'Etranger

[Michael Moorcock]

Of course I have another reason for not wanting to see it and that's because I've been living with the subject for some 25 years and am somewhat exhausted!

[Doc]

Parts of it seemed a little contrived, but I still thought it was one of the most moving films I've seen. I walked out of the theater and neither my friend nor I could say any words with more than one syllable for about 15 minutes because we were so stunned.

Regardless, it would have been a much better film had Pyat made an appearance. :)

[Jerico]

For the most part, I hate remakes!!

[Governor of Rowe Island]

In a roundabout way, talk of remakes takes us back to the original post. I for one am greatly looking forward to the new film. I'm a big fan of the book and the audio version by Jeff Wayne. :oops: I think this has been crying out for a version that stays true to the book, and hopefully this will fulfil expectations.

Incidentally, I'm also a big fan of so-called "Steampunk" stories and while I've read two follow-ups to "The Time Machine", I've never heard of a follow to "War of the Worlds". It's ripe for exploitation! Imagine what they could have done with the technology the Martians brought with them!

[Michael Moorcock]

The second series of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen which is even better than the first series... Moore manages to combine various classic Martian themes, with particular reference to War of the Worlds.